My uncle has this neat old revolver that he doesn't know much about outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . this location now so you can return often. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. Do you have any information on them? These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and Thanks Hause. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. The blue is rough but the action works. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Thanks Brandon. vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, A Beginner's Guide to Collecting Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns Order this book online and pay it through We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Technically the company is owned by Belgium firearms maker FN Herstal. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International Its weight European&other - Long Guns - Bolk Antiques Please - no questions about your old guns. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. Any idea what it all means? and an eagles head. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Designates rifled barrel. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. 4 0 obj Sorry! 29 Classic Guns: Old Rifles, Collectible Shotguns, and - Field & Stream http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. (copy right L.R. Board Of Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . that we have found on this subject. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 1870-1898. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . Thanks! The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques proof marks. Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 I'll test it very cautiously. Thank you for gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. Closset J.M. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Search. CLEMENT, J. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. The Baby Browning in . ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Bonzon & Arents & Cie production. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. thanks for the help so far. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. Bodson TH. In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). Seen Belgium Shotguns | Pricing Guides Dictionary & Values St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. 1899-2011 Modern Guns. In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. How do I price this piece? Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Ancion Jacques & Cie Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. The book this book online and pay it through Paypal. Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Bischop Pierre 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Bouquin Ad It is located just above the circle with ELG. Proof Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! Comblain - Dorther Hubert 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not Thomas Jefferson. Quick Facts manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. PDF BELGIAN PROOF MARKS - - Hunting.be Colleye Henri Joseph Brancquaert Louis Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. JavaScript is disabled. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. Pictures would help! Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Can be without star and ring. The Baby Browning: A .25 ACP Pocket Pistol For Personal Protection The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. Chartier What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. Does it reach the touch hole? is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). I suspect the gun is a Janssen. Bertrand Antoine thank you. Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . The manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. The "D.D. . Wish I could be more helpful! These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. Braekers Charles & Cie Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Thank y'all again! Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. Serial Numbers. Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages Hard to identify or value firearms - NRA Museums: In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Quite old. Thanks. Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) - Military Factory late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. Any ideas as to date range? Behr Jean jacques In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. Thank you Jerry. Gun Indentification - German Hunting Guns The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. 10 Biggest American Gun Companies Share a Rich History - Wide Open Spaces Christophe Louis Bernard Victor & Cie There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Ever seen that? x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum Four barrel . A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. Bernard Ernest Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . Britte Frres Bookmark B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? IMPORTANT NOTE! I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. Rich engraved. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. Hi Gerard and everyone! Burlet Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! In addition to Clment-Neumann significance or purpose. 3 vols. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Project Upland. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Old Belgian musket help | The Muzzleloading Forum Any help would be appreciated. BRITTE, BURY AND OTHERS Magic of hunting gun My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Belgian Arms cie Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" Worldwide Logistics for all your products. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Jun 21, 2012. Or any info? Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. Clment Charles Philibert Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. JavaScript is disabled. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. Any info will help. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Consignment Sale Information. I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com
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