Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. I & II It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. lost energy) are reduced by only having two of the six clutches open at any time. A rebuilt 10L80 will only have a certain number of components that get replaced. (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), (see also capacity of fluid in the converter. Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. Eighth 0.85 Where the original 4L80E First gear is 2.48:1, TCI created a 2.97:1 First gear ratio. Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. Quick 4 Stand-Alone Transmission Control System The band number is printed on the solenoids in the location shown and will be a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 (Figure 3). Thx The 8L90 and 6L80 have the same size output shaft and mounting pattern. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . 10L80 Performance Rebuild. As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. 2020 10l80 4wd an I one to convert to 2wd. CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). The dipstick has three different fill marks, A, B and C. These fill marks are model dependent and should be verified with factory information when the fluid level is checked (Figure 11). Production Began 2017 TH400, TH200-4R, TH700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E (without converter), 6L80E Fluid capacity with 258 mm converter, 6L80E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter, 6L90E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter. Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. Special tools are often needed when diagnosing transmission problems and overhauling units. R.F. Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. Find Dealer. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. Wait 3-5 minutes before driving. This product is NOT intended to be used on factory OE vehicles such as; Cadillac, Corvette, Camaro Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. Sonnax highlights two product lines for helping with heavy solenoids for GM/Ford 10L/10R and 9T series transmissions. This is both a return to and a departure from previous automotive control systems in the industry in that earlier electronic transmissions used a separate control module, later to be integrated into the Engine Control Modules which were thus termed Powertrain Control Modules. Will this hurt the trani? When diagnosing this unit, it is very important to realize that the failure management programs built into the powertrain system may be a direct reflection of the customers drivability complaint. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). By the time a converter rebuilder opens up a JMBX, the damage is done, and it can be hard to see what happened first. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. The complaint A Ford vehicle equipped with the FNR5 transmission has a complaint of a severe slipping condition in reverse. Legal/Privacy. While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? I have a 700 R4 trani with a dash mounted after market switch to engage or disengage my lock up.The trani has a 2500 stall & is behind a old school 383 stroker engine with 388 hp at the motor with a 3.73 Rr gear. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. Comparing that to our old TH-400 combo, wed need 5.40:1 rear gear to equal the overall First Gear ratio in the new Corvette. They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. Reactions: me32. Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. If you have any questions that I may be able to help you with, drop a comment or contact me. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. *$3,245 does not include any Hard Part damage, Torque Converter or TCM/ECM tuning. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. 10L80 vs 10L90 Transmissions. Tenth 0.64 With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. Exceptional torque rating. Comes with a complete harness and the necessary software to program the TCM-2650 Module. That is just the beginning. I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. To give you a sense of scope, for every single forged replacement cover that Sonnax sells for the 4L60-E TMBX, we sell many, many more for the 6L80/90 JMBX. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: But the cause he discovered was related to the pump. Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. But its interesting to note that there is a very low cover/piston failure rate for the 4L60-E TMBX converter. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. But tall highway gearing arent the only way that this transmission maximizes efficiency. The transmission lacks a direct-drive, but features two overdrive gears. Powertrain Expo The 6L80 (and similar 6L90) is a six-speed automatic transmission built by General Motors at its Willow Run Transmission plant in Ypsilanti, MI.It was introduced in late 2005, and is very similar in design to the smaller 6L45/6L50, produced at GM Powertrain in Strasbourg, France.It features clutch to clutch shifting, eliminating the one-way clutches used on older transmission designs. Related Articles Are you ready to rock in 2023? Your email address will not be published. The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. So the service life is limited, and the warranty will only last 1-2 years. 1. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. Ford considers this to be a normal condition! As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times. It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. vehicle weights. 4L60E (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 4L60E / 4L65E (w/ removable bellhousing) All LS1 Type, 4L80E 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), 6L80E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), 6L90E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), Splines (output shaft)Pan Bolts (number of), Transmission Fluid Capacity (see also capacity of fluid in the converter here). The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. Autostart / Autostop function disabled (if equipped), Transmission Adaptive Pressure Control and adaptive shift values Frozen, High line pressure (harsh shifts and engagements). Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. The idler gear itself has two threaded holes opposite each other for the use of a puller (see figure 1, above). and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. If the transmission is in the vehicle you can use the RPO tag in the glove compartment. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. The same shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during a downshift. This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. It began replacing the 4L60E transmission in many vehicles starting in the 2006 model year. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. full. Trying to decide if its worth upgrading for the 10L80 alone. But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. This idler gear and ball bearing assembly is mounted to the stator shaft support housing. This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. When its enabled at low speeds the exhaust tone becomes muffled, the AFM valves clatter open and closed, v4 vibration and increased injector noise is nothing but annoying, especially with a convertible. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. 700R4 / 4L60E with PATC close ratio gear set. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit. to 885 ft. Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. For the most part, this transmission has been phased out by the 8L90E already, but is still in prodution. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter. Thanks for the question! The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. Note, all models will have a warmer. Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. Gm hydro 10 speed. 2nazty New Member. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. If the warmer is not mounted to the transmission, refer to factory information to locate it. TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. For a type A code, the MIL will illuminate after one drive cycle with the malfunction present. What is your recomendation for towing? The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. Team ATF builder Super Dave doing his magic on assembling the First 10L80 transmission ATFSpeed has had come thru the shop. Second 2.99 Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. 2. This is a normal and desired behavior. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? This transmission is out of a Tur. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. 8 Options if Your Transmission Has Failed, Transmission Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), Best Remanufactured Transmission Companies, Hybrid Battery Replacement Cost and Prices, 10 Most Common Transmission Problems & How to Fix Them, How to Change Transmission Fluid Step by Step, What is a Transmission Flush? Gears Magazine All rights reserved. The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. After programming, perform the Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle and reevaluate the vehicle. Developing any new technology will cost an absolute ton of money, which why its not unusual for car companies to co-develop things like chassis and transmissions. Copyright 2012 yr=d.getFullYear(); I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. Did they release much info about it on the trucks? Sixth 1.28 Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. By reducing the rpm drop between gears, the engine remains within its power band. ! Theres also a unique internal thermal bypass that allows the transmission to warm up faster, reducing fuel consumption on cold starts. Hi, im doing a swap from Yukon 2019 to 1987 Regal. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives.
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