In a March 15 sermon, Lindell urged congregants to repeal Springfield's sexual orientation and gender identity law on April 7. Driscoll should not be granted any level of power till he has demonstrated that he has obtained the humility necessary to handle it. Return to homepage. their ministry grew and even people that werent christians were thankful for them. I called Stephens and informed him Lindell had mentioned him in a sermon. . @ sam: OTOH, they may yet surprise us and probably even themselves. My heart aches for all those whom Mark Driscoll hurt from the Petrys and Meyers to the young and impressionable. The sad part is that members have no idea how they are viewed unless they ask uncomfortable questions. I completely understand why you are so skeptical. I prefer dealing with an honest atheist (and I know a lot of those) to dealing some self-professing christians. The church has spawned countless church plants, charities and conferences. your post, and this one i read on facebook yesterday: I then stood up and pointed out that 30 lines below the famous quote All men are created equal the Declaration of Independence refers to Natives as merciless Indian savages. http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/. (KY3) - James River Church responded Monday to complaints after social media images show little social distancing and few masks at its Christmas celebrations. it is heartbreaking to have to help them get through the transfer of custody until the one can get through a treatment and be able to be around the child again. This was a new song to me. My point with Che is to draw a parallel. Are they involved in a joint venture? Regardless of your tilt on the subject, Lindell appears to go out of his way to make it into the news on the subject. Covenants, ruling elders, etc. The way I see things may be different in that I see the individuals in the Kingdom being more important than mediating organizations in the church universal. His statement is factually incorrect. District. The name Che is a nickname, short for pig (chancho), for a reason. One of six. And Jesus said He would send the Spirit of Truth, how we deal with situations in truth or deceitfulness is very telling. Lindell reused the Robert Morris line of chiding his congregation to stop shooting the wounded. Ive seen desensitizing have the desired effect and its not pretty. Prayer Requests He needs a revenue stream and using Jesus is all he knows. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. I hope you dont write off church altogether. To learn more, visit ja. Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. Also, there is a difference, IMO, between forgiveness and trust restoration. Mark was one cog in a system that should never have been in place. James River Kids - YouTube Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. Ive recently read Wayne Jacobsen Finding Church, Frank Viola Finding Organic Church, Terry Stanley The way Church Was Meant To Be and found what they think the church should be an interesting concept but so far Im not convinced. Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. Pastor Lindell invited disgraced misogynistic megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll to speak at James River Assembly while Driscoll was in the midst of a sexual harassment and bullying scandal in his home church. The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. Maybe then, someone would seek him out to lead and it would be safe again. In case this was not a rhetorical question, Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community. I have to disagree Gus considering you mentioned brain cells. But the attempt was cut short Sunday when Hillsong, one of the most influential international megachurches, cut him from the speaker list at its upcoming conferences in the United Kingdom and in Australia. Title I also find him vulgar and misogynistic, so I dont see him as ever having been qualified to start with. All 6,115 words of it. Rob Smiths orphanage was totally defunded and left broke by Marks Hill, the Lord has taken up for those children, thankfully. I noted in my comments on the petition that Driscoll still hasnt repented before all and specifically to the people whose lives he damaged, such as former Mars Hill elder/attorney Paul Petry, a godly, decent man. Youll notice the Pentecostals elevating him are in their 50s and 60s. Photos show large crowds at Missouri's James River Church | The Kansas And yes, Baptists and other evangelicals have evolved to believing similar using other methods of mediation for people. (Those wounded by MD) must forgive even if (MD) never admits wrong. Plus Driscoll has to be way cheaper than Judah Smith or Carl Lentz, the current kings of radical chic. Hillsongsfounder, Brian Houston, released a statement saying he did not want the 30-minute interview with Driscoll to distract from the larger five-day conference. i have seen so much of what you wrote about to know that it is true, a big orchestrated show to fleece sheep and get fame. In the future, people will tell churches and christians to distance themselves from the dishonesty of the dishonest churches. Tom Lane already draws a massive six figure salary yet it is never enough. Have you noticed the more scandals from some thugs they actually become more popular? https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/how-to-respond-to-a-faith-crisis-establishing-and-building-trust/. I think Christians make a huge mistake when looking at patterns of spiritual abuse, deception and tyranny as whether or not they are criminal according to our laws. Did this evil plot involve the use of ninjas or leprechauns? Thats right, the head pastor no less! if mark is truly repentant than this sermon is him explaining how he persecuted and publicly stoned stephen to death which was actually mark stoning Jesus to death publicly and with no remorse. The introduction sounded like it was coming from a caretaker role. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? any way i am still wrestling with my view of my world and churches and like you mentioned, gun shy when i go into a new church. Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? They use lots of hair gel and work on their golf tans. "Eastview Christian Church pastor, Mike Baker, resigns after son, Caleb Baker, is fired from Central Christian Church for adultery" Why? A lot of people will say, 'I got that. There was a box for Guest Services. He did it from one of the most powerful places in Southwest Missouri the pulpit of James River Church, where he leads an Assemblies of God congregation that often tops 9,000 worshipers on. Let me look it up. In his case, trust had to be earned, for obvious reasons. Welcome to the James River Church YouTube Channel where you will find weekly encouraging sermons from Pastor John Lindell and others! Actually are pews still in general use? And he cant really do that if he keep holding on to the more sexist, frat boy type of Christianity that Neo Calvinists support that he was espousing at Mars Hill. Because 12 years ago Walter Salles made an awesome movie about him called The Motorcycle Diaries starring the gentle heartthrob Gael Garcia Bernal as Che. Like I said, I dont want to get into an argument here. He can be forgiven. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. @wartwatch Not even the milk toast "We regret if anyone was offended"? I have heard Driscoll in person.. Thank you again. Also, you dont want the sheep to get uppity. Joplin Campus - Joplin, MO - James River Church Online Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. any way i am still wrestling with my view of my world and churches and like you mentioned, gun shy when i go into a new church. All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. "We cannot endorse a candidate and we cannot endorse a party," he said. Its a measure of arrogance, tweeted retired attorney and flight instructor Jeanne Mann on Sunday with a photo from the gathering. (remembering marks sermon about mark being king) jesus is seated and he stands up for stephen. Dont you want to be a part of that? All he has to do is say "I repent" and it has to be forgiven and forgotten or we are the meanies. . James River Church Reverend John E Lindell. At least at one point, women made up about 50% to 50% of most churches. So we were allowed to leave in good standing. During those early years they had a great impact on hurting people and a great testimony of the work of the Lord in a group of people dedicated to doing whatever He led them to do. It is identical to another certain entertainment industry where faking it means everything and in my opinion the industry representing the older profession is less offensive. Lydia on Sat Jun 13, 2015 at 12:48 Was that MDs evil twin Dark Miscoll who said elders who disagree with him need to be put in wood chippers or that women need to bring their men to Jesus by orally servicing them every morning whether they like it or not? Week of Power with Bill Johnson & Randy Clark Sunday, March 12 - Thursday March 16. Only the hero. James River Church | Christian Church - Springfield, MO People shift roles all the time (Mark has obviously been a persecutor a lot!). since we are all clergy??? Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. This one was different. I am more interested in why the pew sitters fall for it and focusing there. The worship leaders laugh about it. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. Driscoll also distanced himself from past crude and misogynistic remarks, calling the perception of what I think about womenentirely my own fault. Who would have thought that the message of the Cross for ALL people (the whosoever wills) would be diminished in pentecostal ranks?! i have been ousted from 6 churches already and at first i took it as me being in error and not able to understand the bible or what the Lord had called me to be like but now i am able to see that i can trust the still small voice inside and the Holy Spirit to give me understanding of the scriptures without having to run it by a pastor somewhere. Six months for Driscoll does not represent later in life, give him another ten or twenty years. I simply offer another perspective. Church membership requires showing your W-2 and mandatory tithe Does it lie with Driscoll/Chandler or does it lie with the people whom they want to trust them? Likewise, you cannot be or stay a pastor if you find out that you cant respect people. 99,693 were here. i have met people that have told me that they went to gateway (and other churches that are similar) but no longer do without ever saying why. He is young and using Jesus is all he knows. It was clear to me that Marks attendance had the potential to divert attention from the real purpose. 33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) Just show-biz. But in America, (to quote HUG) its all about the Benjamins, baby. Join us LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm and 7pm! Their statements to Karen Hinkley and everyone else may be complete cynical BS to pull the wool over everyones eyes, or at least those of their pewsitters. Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. He set himself up as King of Acts 29 and operated with no accountability at Mars Hill. (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. But. Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community I dont think theres been any repentance at all. an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. THANK YOU! -Katelyn If he is serious about ministry then he needs to stay away from those circumstances which enable him to get into trouble-money, power and the pulpit. ++++++++++++++++++. As I said, I am not a fan, but I can see the appeal of *his image,* from way back in the late 60s when posters of him 1st started appearing in college dorms. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. Are you not voting? Gus, it is very naive not to take into consideration that Driscolls constant media attention did not influence the TVC response to their own problem in any way. Do your part with the people in your life, give to your church, beyond that have a global heart for widows, orphans, the poor and those in need, I am going to ask you to support some widows and orphans in Africa, We have an orphanage, we have a villagemembers of Mars Hill have actually moved there to take care of widows and orphans.. And he was not originally trusted or met with open arms by the Jesus believers of the day. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight. You need to check yourself Lindell then apologize and repent. "He saw it for what it was. if your a sports fan theres a point of where something amazing is about to happenfootball baseball in the middle of a game changing moment they jump out of their seat. i have very little church experience so i dont think i am qualified to even speak to these things though. Additionally, Jonna Petry (who started the blog Joyful Exiles) was shunned along with the Petry children. what would you say and do (if they stoned you) angry mob is murdering him openly publicly and shamefully. "Addressing this topic or the subject of the upcoming vote from the pulpit is not against the law in this country, although it may be in the future," Lindell said in the sermon. I admit that I am rather skeptical of James River's reliability now, most of this information was new to me. CCHD encourages individuals who were present at the high-capacity event over the weekend to monitor for symptoms of COVID-19 for 14-days from the event date and seek medical attention if symptoms develop., Church officials defended themselves in a statement issued to KYTV-KSPR, noting that despite what the images show, we take seriously the safety and health of those who attend our services.. Mega churches are asking people to step back from the reality of how they effect people and just go along with a bunch of rules and covenants and christianeese and let them stay in their positions cause their friends say they are changed. That is largely what TWW does, ISTM. Please fill me in Numo. He. I take it to mean: Don't feel so bad, there are whole lot of other people hell-bound, too. i hope people will go back and read the whole thing if they havent yet. Rumors that circulated after the trial of Paul Petry. They are relinquishing 10-20% of their gross income. I really do believe that Driscoll has sociopathic tendencies. What I do really pray for is that the followers start questioning and thinking about what they support and find freedom in their own seeking of Christ instead of following a guru and his interpretations. #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books, Theyre having new revelations from heaven haha i mean from the internet blogs that they cant escape. Remember how everyone always tells Muslims to denounce terrorism and extremism? The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. No coffee bar, etc. Southern Missouri . Youre right. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. these were murders not trials. Mr. Petry was fired and ordered to be excommunicated and shunned for his opposing Driscolls move to consolidate power in the church and not have Biblical accountability before the elders. Love, I know you are already familiar with it but for anyone else not familiar, it was written in the context of David and Saul. The authentic community I was referring to is the it term/concept in megas for 2015. But it would be encouraging if they did. And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. Is this similar to Radical Chic? An online petition calling for Mr Driscoll to be removed from Hillsong's conferences had attracted more than 3000 signatures prior toMr Houston's statement. Gr8 fun. There seems to be a lot of the just finding out new information that everyone already knows about but which now changes everything affliction going around. Bummer. of course i have no idea really what is driving mark driscoll but thats what i think it might be. plausible they shoved that in jesus mouth, with that taste on his lips. (the death of Jesus on the cross as written in the bible is not enough, mark adds something more exciting and sickening like they shoved an a##-wipe sponge in Jesus mouth.) But we rarely hear about that. I guess Calvinism for these guys means never having to take personal responsibility. Did he have liveried Armorbearers blowing long trumpets before him to announce how HUMBLE(TM) he was (chuckle chuckle)? as to revenue streams, Jesus paid His taxes with money a fish popped up with. Others appear to draw some type of inspiration from Driscoll. shuning is not always done professionally as in TVC but so often done whisperingly in churches but the effect is the same to the person shunned. I just think that there is not much reason to listen to just his side of the story and think that is all there may be to it. stephen doesnt blameshift, doesnt lose his temper, stays calm. 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. I find it telling that it contains 41 mentions of "sin," "sinners" and "sinfulness.". Driscoll has used this vague parallels to himself many times, framing the sermon in the context of his own life with the lives of other noble characters, most notably Jesus. You might be interested in this post from this recent post at Stand Firm, an Anglican blog, regarding Hillsong. It does not mean that forgiveness is lacking. I probably wont be won over to the side of communism. But much of the Australian backlash has centred around Mr Driscoll's comments about women. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And I saw it. I was mainly trying to establish there is a difference between lovable Hollywood Che and reality Che. How far can a pastor go in preaching the gospel when it comes to a political issue? CAn you see him in some sort of corporate environment working for a woman? If any blogger made such a vague blanket statement as this theyd be called out immediately. I asked the mayor, specifically, how he will vote on the matter April 7. I doubt he walked away broke. I think MDs desire to be on a stage, at this point, is a sure sign he should not be there. Meanwhile, Mark Driscoll was preparing to deliver his sermon at James River Church, an Assemblies of God megachurch located in the "Show Me State" (Missouri). i think that Jesus and God are Awesome, the only crisis i have been having is in my view of the world and the church. he sees God. I really appreciate your insights Lydia. hes a wonderful pastor to the very end. we will see jesus face to face I dont want you to take your slander etc with you. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. They knew exactly what they were buying. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: Q. ", Meanwhile, here's what was communicated 'Down Under' "Houston, we have a problem.". So far I define church as more what it isnt rather than what it is. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. It is all choreographed and it works! Imagine that. Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. In 2019, James River reported an average weekly attendance of 19,000,[1]making it one of the ten largest AG churches and one of the largest churches in Missouri (subsequently Springfield). But he was not still throwing men and women (!) Connect With Us! I wish he would try to get a corporate communications job or something though. Galatians 5:22-23. Mark' Driscoll's message has been uploaded on the church website, and we have included it here should you choose to watch it. . © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. It shouldnt be about raw numbers of attenders and financial statements if it is a true church. That does not mean you want harm to come to them. Or is it just a GW thing? when the pastor first says, his humility he almost breaks out laughing (cause maybe he knows how stupid it is to say that). It was dingy and old. Pastor daddy Mike Baker is furious and says he's been mistreated-"slander," etc. We know that Driscoll should never have been a pastor: lack of formal qualifications, lack of maturity in the faith (too young, and never been a member of a church before he started his own), lack of maturity in general; Whats worse, total lack of good character. The following excerpt from that article caught my attention: "I do not want unnecessary distractions during our conference, particularly as this 30 minute interview was only a small part of this five day event," Mr Houston said in a statement. He told me he will vote against repeal. It refers to protecting the King of Israel from physical harm, not preventing people from telling the truth. He was engaging, funny and gracious. "A missionary is a qualified Christian sent out under the authority of a local church to an area of recognized need in order to pursue the work of the Great Commission." where is God in all this? I just took a year of online classes at one of them. http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, from reading rob smiths post about the orphanage Agathos in Africa being defunded by Marks Hill church and marks telling missionaries not to work with them it is clear where Matt Chandler got the idea. . until he says otherwise what else can a person think? I did disagree, however, with this one sentence. But guess what else happened? No, there is no reason to believe CJ committed actual crimes. and it even works better when there is cheap grace and forgiveness all around. You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting such a bully in the name of Jesus Christ. Thats exactly what I was thinking last weekend! Che badgered/shamed the workers that receiving a pat on the back from their boss/comrade for increasing the quota should be enough for them to continue to increase production without any chance of being compensated for it monetarily. Pews are in the old megas. Youre not trying hard enough! Why am I concerned? Missouri megachurch under fire over crowded Christmas services | Church He was the vulgar shock jock of American Christianity. I am not the judge of the hearts of men, but God has given us clues to the genuine presence of the Spirit, and I did not see it. Ive recently read Wayne Jacobsen Finding Church, Frank Viola Finding Organic Church, Terry Stanley The way Church Was Meant To Be and found what they think the church should be an interesting concept but so far Im not convinced. Not me, not you, and definitely not Mark Driscoll. But one morning as I sat at my desk in y basement office, I looked up at my little bulletin board. During this pandemic we have helped thousands of people with food, financial assistance, counsel, and spiritual encouragement. i want to again put a human face on what Mark Driscoll and others in Acts 29 insist on keeping free of anything but CEO Business speak and mistakes that were made. Even then he will need what was badly missing from Mars Hill, real accountability. Same goes for singles. Mark pretty much mandated participation in weekly Life Groups plus you had to use their social media platform The City to stay connected. I dont think it is realistic. http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html. perhaps, assuming cunning strategy on the part of MD and Mark Demoss: *this sector of christainworld is the path of least resistance (especially since from others comments the YRR/reformed world has disowned him). As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. Pokin Around: Mega-church pastor tells members to repeal gay rights law Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. If there is one thing I think is missing from the entire narrative of interpreting scripture it is the theme of wisdom running through it from Genesis on. Join us for life-giving worship, encouraging stories and testimonies, and a powerful message from Pastor John. Again. He is listening for your litl sweet voice! Can anyone explain this James River Church thing to me? saul walks onto the stage of history. Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? no., Thats the crux of the message, isnt it? 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What I do really pray for is that the followers start questioning and thinking about what they support and find freedom in their own seeking of Christ instead of following a guru and his interpretations. Wouldnt you encourage him to find another vocation? Are we really talking about clerical influence/position/authority and money? He needs to start small, out of the public eye, not in front of thousands. A large percentage of modern evangelical mega-churchianity is beyond comprehenshion.
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