I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. I fired the Rattler off-hand from 10 and 15 yards with the earlier test loads and a few others, including Winchesters 150-grain Deer Season XP ammunition and Noslers 220-grain BTs. So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. No, but it was never designed to be. FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . At 1,900 fps, youll still get a good permanent wound cavity, some temporary cavity and the ability to defeat armor in most cases. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. Ah, the AR-pistol. Joe Kurtenbach and Caleb Giddings also look at the first-ever optics-ready carry revolvers with the new Taurus 605 and 856 T.O.R.O. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. While many people often think of AR pistols as just short-barreled carbines, in this case, the pistol appellation is quite apt. There was a slot for threading a sling and also a hole on each side for attaching a QD sling loop. I was really happy . He called it a stutter. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . SIG MCX Rattler SBR . The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. So move along . The system is also completely modular like the MPX. The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. Of course, given the Rattlers short barrel, some gel testing was in order. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. But upon closer inspection, we noticed that the safety and magazine release were ambidextrous. Will it perform at greater distances? An example that comes to mind is how the handguard that comes stock has mlok that only goes halfway down, and people complain about it getting real hot, and conveniently they sell a upgraded version with mlok that covers the whole thing, and effectively solves . It's basically a bcm with the Saint logo on it. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . (Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) I cant understand that. The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. | Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . All Rights Reserved. Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. Soldiers and law enforcement who wear plates or body armor might not complain about the bare-plastic buttplate, but most shooters will want something more friendly. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. Barrels with twist rates of 1:8 inches and even 1:7 inches have replaced the original-issue lands and grooves that spun the bullets at a rate of 1:9. The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. One last more subtle upgrade was the trigger guard from Bravo Company that left more room for a gloved finger without necessarily having to unlatch the bottom panel. In use, it seemed to all but disappear. A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. Wow just read the article on TTAG. Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. I run the SIG SRD762TI on my Rattler. Springfield has made some shitty moves in the past but they make an amazing AR. Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. All in, our CMMG rifle displayed 1-MOA accuracy on average for all shots fired, despite our difficulties with the trigger. Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16" I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . The upper, including the mix of Picatinnny and Keymod rail, was more modern than the lower, which offered more traditional components, such as the plastic grip with single finger groove and the buttstock that was sans any padding. Caliber + 300 BLK; 5.56 NATO; 7.62x39 . Combine the heft with a quality suppressor and the Blackouts recoil is negated to next to nothing, giving the pistol excellent follow-up shot accuracy. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. They are going to err on the side of caution by telling you they are incompatible but in this situation they are right. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . Introduced in 2015, the MCX is essentially a larger, rifle-caliber version of Sig Sauers pistol-caliber MPX. PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. Visually, this made them less obvious. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . Filter SIG MCX . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I used two suppressors with the Rattler. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. I can't get my hands on the DD5 which I really prefer. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . Sig Sauer. Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. (Tie) B&T .45 2. Compare specifications of Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB and Springfield Saint Victor Pistol 300 AAC Blackout STV909300B. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. MCX-SPEAR . It will likely go through a threat up close (given no contact with bone), but most of its work is done before exiting. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. So, I spread the wealth equally. Joe Kurtenbach, Executive Editor of Gun & Ammo, and John Myles from Smith & Wesson discuss features of the Equalizer 9mm micro-compact pistol and new-for-2023 M&P 5.7. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. Thanks Bio. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. I had several concerns due to its comically short barrel, its accuracy, reliability and velocity. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. But the safety and the magazine release were ambidextrous. It's a little longer but CZ Bren 2 MS pistol can be had in 5.56 or 7.62x39 with a couple added inches of barrel than the Sig Rattler. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. Compare. I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. Operation was very smooth and secure. The gas block is pinned in place. 354K views 4 years ago In this episode of TFBTV, James Reeves reviews the SIG MCX Rattler, a 5.5" PDW in .300BLK that has been purchased for US SOCOM evaluation. I got my hands on the SBR variant, which features a skeletonized stock that folds flat against the left side of the receiver without obstructing the controls. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. Substantial in some circumstances. When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. Maybe they will give me some clarity. But if you want range, get a longer-barreled rifle with a slower twist rate to optimize 125-grain loads. Unless otherwise noted, these reviews carry the guns prices at the time of the original review. Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. Although the drill was shot cold, we couldnt help but be more warmed up by the time we reached the third gun. The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. Keep Reading. I got the email also Bio. SA ars get a lot of shit from people but it has been a really good rifle. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. 4. Hence there are solid copper bullets for high speed applications in 16 inch carbines (1/6 rate or greater) that shoot 300 BLK, but the ammo is expensive. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. I got it for around 900 dollars a little over a year ago. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. Sorry for long story .Your CZ Bren are pretty cool looking guns , I got the CZ Evo3 in OD green with SB 3 tactical folding brace on it . The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. With a 9.6-inch barrel, M-LOK BCM Gunfighter handguard, forward handstop and more, that SAINT served as a solid introductory model. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. A wide selection of CMP surplus ammo will 2023 JNews - Premium WordPress news & magazine theme by Jegtheme. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). New! Save my name and email to use for future comments. A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. With most loads, a 9-inch barrel is enough bore for a complete powder burn. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. Supporter+. I suppose this is due, in part, to how much gas is escaping out the short barrel past the bullet instead of gathering force behind it as it would in a longer barrel. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. Saw that email pop up today. I bought a Tread on a whim. Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. Sig's new SnakeBite . However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. The Gunfighter grip offers an extended backstrap to shield the web of the hand and the knurled side panels that provided excellent traction. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. Runs great. The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. I recently bought a Christensen Arms CA-15 G2 in Burnt Bronze, Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Carbon Fiber hand guard. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. The SCW assembly isnt just a short buffer tube; it includes a shortened, proprietary bolt carrier group (BCG), and the buffer and spring protrude into the upper receiver when the bolt is closed. ". Whereas there is nothing special about the front sight, buttstock, or handguard, upgrades to the magazine release, safety levers, and the bolt catch are more expensive to manufacture or supply than a fancy handguard or buttstock. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. The Sig Sauer Rattler. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. I dont own any Springfield armory but it seems they do one dumbass thing on every gun they build, but different every time. So these two were on my list . I'll go with the Sig and do those upgrades for sure. Wed prefer a free-float sling attachment, but the Saint is handsome and well made at a good price. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. JavaScript is disabled. The detent spring was quite heavy and the grip necessary to compress it proved awkward. But After getting hooked on the Springfield Saint line I lost interest in the Sig , I feel bad. Honey badger .300bo 5. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. check out the, Welcome to the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Forum, we hope you like what you find here and we strongly encourage you to. models. Ready to go where-ever it's needed, the MCX Rattler has a thin, foldable stock for easy concealment and stowage. The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. April 23, 2020 By Sean Utley While there are many good suppressors available, in my experience there are a few notable brands and models which, from a durability/longevity standpoint, I would consider first when looking to purchase a suppressor. A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. Full Member. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. Another latecomer to AR manufacturing, Ruger has proven fast in picking up the rules of the game. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to The trigger is Springfields flat trigger, first introduced on the Saint Victor line. This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. Minuteman. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too.
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